The Genealogy of the Simon Family of Willebadessen, Germany, and its Descendants in America
Barcant, Krogh, d'Abadie and Related Families of Trinidad and Tobago
Hurd and Clark Families of Kent County, Delaware, and Caroline County, Maryland
Dolan and Carr Families of County Tyrone, Northern Ireland, and County Donegal, Ireland
McGillin Families of County Tyrone, Northern Ireland, and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Thomas CarrAbt 1776 - 1866 (~ 90 years)
Name Thomas Carr Born Abt 1776 Ireland Gender Male Died 2 Dec 1866 Drumgorman Townland, Mountcharles, County Donegal, Ireland Person ID I2123 Simon and Related Families | Descendants of Simon Carr (1812-1888) Last Modified 2 May 2019
Children 1. Simon Carr, b. Abt 1812, Inver, County Donegal, Ireland , d. 9 Jan 1888, Ballymacavany, Pettigo, County Donegal, Ireland (Age ~ 76 years) 2. Jane Carr, b. Abt 1814, County Donegal, Ireland , d. 20 Apr 1911, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States (Age ~ 97 years) + 3. John Carr, b. Abt 1817, Ireland , d. 26 Sep 1882, Drumgorman Townland, Mountcharles, County Donegal, Ireland (Age ~ 65 years) Last Modified 26 Jan 2015 Family ID F664 Group Sheet | Family Chart
Event Map = Link to Google Earth
Documents Drumgorman Map from 1838 Survey, showing Carr Tenancies
Extract of 1838 map of Drumgorman Townland, showing the names of tenants, made by Gabriel Montgomery and in the private collection of James McGarrigle, Strabane, Northern Ireland, and used by permission. The extent of the Carr family (Thomas Carr and Bernard Carr) holdings are the same as in the 1857 Griffiths Valuation for Thomas Carr, comprising in this map fields 13-19, 22, 23, 25-29, 37 and 38 (with structures in each that also appear in the Griffiths Valuation) and 43-53. If rotated 90 degrees to the left, this map then overlays the Griffiths Valuation map.
Drumgorman Map from 1857 Griffiths Valuation - 01 - Overview.
Overview map of Drumgorman Townland in Mountcharles District, Inver Parish, County Donegal, from Ordnance Survey maps associated with Griffith's Valuation of Tenements, 1857.
Drumgorman Map from 1857 Griffiths Valuation - 02 - Detail
Detail of Drumgorman Townland from Griffith' Valuation, showing the locations of Lot 3A (in center) and Lot 3B (lower left corner, adjacent to Lot 8A), leased by Thomas Carr.
Drumgorman Map from 1857 Griffiths Valuation - 03 - Terrier
Partial list of tenants in Drumgorman Townland, showing Thomas Carr in Lot 3A and 3B.
Carr, Thomas - 1866 Death
Abstract of 1866 death record for Thomas Carr.
Carr, Thomas (1776-1866) - Death
1866 Irish Civil Registration death record for Thomas Carre of Drumgorman, County Donegal.
Year of birth would be 1775-1776, according to age (90 years) in 1866 Irish Civil Record of Death, available for purchase from ifhf.rootsireland.ie and a copy of which is in the possession of Robert M. Simon. Named as Thomas Carre. Informant for death certificate, who was present at death, was John Carre, who can be assumed to be the John Carr from Drumgorman who was born about 1817, and thus, his son.
Thomas Carr is named as the father of Jane Moss (née Carr) in her Pennsylvania death certificate.
OCCUPATION: Farmer (1866 Irish Civil Death Record)
ADDRESS: Drumgorman Townland, Mountcharles District, County Donegal, Ireland (1838 map of Drumgorman, 1856 Drimgorman Rental Roll, 1857 Griffiths Valuation; 1860 Drimgorman Rental Roll, 1866 Irish Civil Death Record).
- Drumgorman (also spelled Drimgorman) is located west-southwest of Mountcharles Town. The Conyngham family who owned the land in the area descended from Scottish settlers during the Plantation of Ulster in the 1600s, and which included a former Dean of the Anglican Diocese of Raphoe. It was part of the family's Mountcharles Estate, and rental rolls and other records from the early 1800s dealing with this estate are in the National Library of Ireland, Manuscript Division, in Dublin [Ms. 35,395 - consisting of several numbered folders].
- Rental rolls for November 1817 to May 1820 for Drimgorman [Ms. 35,395 (Folder 1) and (Folder 3)] list only four tenants: George Hegarty, An. [Andrew?] Scott, James Meehan, and Hugh Miller. No entry for a Carr, per se.
- The rental roll for November 1820 for Drimgorman [Ms. 35,395 (Folder 3)] shows the following tenant list: George Hegarty and partners, Samuel Long and partners and seven others, James Meehan and partners, and Hugh Miller and partners. No entry for a Carr, per se.
- The rental roll for May 1821 for Drimgorman [Ms. 35,395 (Folder 3)] shows the following tenant list: G. Hegarty and partners, Samuel Long with 8 others, J. Meehan and partners, and H. Miller and partners. No entry for a Carr, per se.
- There is no entry for a Carr, per se, in the 1825 Tithe Applotment Book for Inver Parish, Drimgorman Townland. This document is available on the National Archives if Ireland website. The list of 18 names for the townland is as follows: Matthew Millar, Alexr Vance, James Meehan, Charles Conahan, Thomas McKee, Edward Doyle, Widow Trower, Charles Gallagher, Charles Haraghy, James McShane, Thomas McShane, Hugh McCahill, George Hegarty, George Scott, Samuel Long, William Mulheran, William Barnett, and William Ward. See below for a discussion of the McShane entries.
- In the 1838 estate map for Drimgorman, Thomas Carr and Bernard Carr are listed as tenants, in lands adjacent to those of James and Hugh McCaghel. This is the earliest unambigous record of a Carr residence in the townland.
- It is possible that Thomas Carr was a resident on Drumgorman prior to 1838 and was simply one of the unnamed "partners" or "others" who are mentioned in these rental rolls, as a subtenant to one of the four principal tenants. The possibility that he was mistakenly listed in 1825 as Thomas "McShane" is discussed below.
- In the rental roll from the Mountcharles Estate for the year ending May 1856 [Ms. 35,395 (Folder 5)], Thomas Carre is listed as a tenant in Drimgorman (Middle), with a annual rent of £9, 10s. Adjacent entries are for James and Hugh McCahill and Sally Birne.
- In the 1857 Griffith's Valuation of Tenements for County Donegal, Thomas Carr is listed as the prime tenant for Lot 3A and 3B in Drumgorman Townland, Mountcharles District. His tenancy amounted to just over 31 acres, and included a house that he sublet to Anne Mulreany. The land he leased was owned by the Marquis of Conyngham.
- In the rental roll from the Mountcharles Estate for the year ending May 1860 [Ms. 35,395 (Folder 5)], Thos. Carr is listed as a tenant in Drimgorman with an annual rent of £11, 10s, 3d.
ARE RECORDS OF "McSHANES" IN THE 1825 TITHE APPLOTMENT BOOKS ACTUALLY RECORDS OF CARRS?
- There is some reason to suspect that Thomas Carr was mistakenly listed in the 1825 Tithe Applotment Book as Thomas McShane.
- The 1825 Title Applotment Book for Drumgorman Townland lists a "Thomas McShane" and a "James McShane" as residents in the townland. They are listed in a non-alphabetical list right before Hugh McCahill (likely indicating geographic proximity).
- In the 1838 map of Drumgorman, Thomas and Bernard Carr are depicted as occupying land next to that of "James and Hugh McCaghel." This lends some weight to the idea that they were mistakenly listed as "McShane" in the Tithe Applotment List.
- In a handwritten manuscript, the surname "McShane" and the surname "McElhare" (a variant of Carr) would have a similar overall appearance, and might be mistaken for one another, especially since McShane (a known surname in east Donegal associated with the leaders of one branch of the O'Neill clan) might have been more familiar than McElhar to someone making an official copy of a document.
- The Tithe Applotment list that is held by the National Archives of Ireland is an official copy of some other original record, as all townlands are written in the same hand. While the surname that appears in this official version of the Tithe Applotment List is clearly "McShane," it is possible that in making this copy, the name "McElhare" in some field notes was misread and copied as "McShane."
- The Tithe Applotment list for nearby Tullyvoos townland similarly lists a "Lawrence McShane" and a "James McShane."
- Yet, in the 1859 Griffiths Valuation of both townlands, no McShane appears in the list of occupants for either townland, while Griffiths does list a Thomas Carr in Drumgorman and a James Kerr in Tullyvoos.
- Significantly, there is an oral history, written down in the 1930s, that places a "Larry Carr" in Tullyvoos townland in the early seventeenth century (see below). So, the Carrs were likely resident there in 1825, suggesting that the "Lawrence McShane" in the Tithe Applotment book might be a descendant of this earlier Lawrence Carr.
- The combination of name placement in the 1825 Tithe Applotment record for Drumgorman, the similarity in names when handwritten, the lack of subsequent records of McShanes in either townland, and oral evidence of Carrs having lived in the area prior to 1825, all point to the possibility that the Tithe Applotment record of 1825 is, in fact, of the Carrs in both townlands.
Full date of death given as 2 December 1866 in Irish Civil Record of Death, available for purchase from ifhf.rootsireland.ie and a copy of which is in the possession of Robert M. Simon. Informant for death certificate, who was present at death, was John Carre. Died in Drumgorman.
CONNECTIONS TO OTHER CARR FAMILIES IN DONEGAL:
- DNA matching between descendants of this Thomas Carr and descendants of Lawrence Carr (b. before 1795) from Friary townland show a match in the 4th-to-6th cousin range. For the individuals involved, if Lawrence Carr was the brother of Thomas Carr, the relationship would be one of fifth cousins once removed. The families probably connect to a common ancestor who lived in the late 1700s.
- A second Carr family that traces its ancestry to Inver Parish lived in Meentacor townland and has as its earliest ancestor Con (aka Cornelius) Carr (born 1803).
- As noted above, a third Carr family was resident in Lots 12A and 12B in Tullyvoos townland (close to Drumgorman) in the 1859 Griffiths Valuation, headed by James Kerr. Like the Drumgorman Carrs, this family does not appear in Mountcharles Estate rentals rolls of 1817-1820 as prime tenants, although there is a James McShane (and a Lawrence McShane) listed in the Tithe Applotment lists.
MENTION OF TULLYVOOS CARRS IN IRISH FOLKLORE COLLECTION:
- From 1937 to 1939, the Irish Folklore Commission undertook an innovative project, in conjunction with the Department of Education and the Irish National Teachers' Organisation, in which senior Primary School children recorded in excess of 750,000 pages of local history and oral tradition from across the 26 counties of the Irish Free State. This collection is housed at the University College in Dublin and includes some 18,000 of the children's original school exercise books. This collection has been digitized and the following extract may be found at www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4428293/4392510.
- The folklore tale of the burial of a Larry Carr was related in 1938 by a 75-year-old blacksmith who heard it as a youth from his father. That would put his hearing of the tale in about 1870, but because it is the explanation for the practice of taking bodies of the deceased by sea to Inver, it is plausible that it would have been handed down for a long time in an oral tradition. The tale is described as being about "Doorin in the Early Seventeenth Century," so it appears to be about an ancestor to the Carrs who appear in the records of Tullyvoos townland in Griffoths Valuation. Tullyvoose townland is separated from Drumgorman townland by Drumcoe townland (called Drimcoe in the below), and was the home of the James Carr family (James Kerr, lots 12A and 12B) in Griffith's Valuation.
"Doorin in the Early Seventeenth Century
"Told by Patrick Brogan, Blacksmith, 75 years (Resident)
"Heard from his father when he was a boy
"Munterneese, Mount Charles
"Written down by Winnie Conaghan V Std. 13 years
"Drimineary, Mount Charles
"Early in the seventeenth century Dooran was thickly populated. There were no roads only foot roads, no carts or cars. The horses carried all on their backs with creels and pads that time. Drimcoe, a townland in Dooran, consisted of a great quantity of bog. The inhabitants cut all their firing there.
"There was an old man who died in Tullvvoose (a townland in Dooran) at that time. His name was Larry Carr. He had to be buried in old Inver grave yard. There was no burial ground in Frosses then. His remains were carried on 'Hand Shakes'.
It was in the month of May, the turf new cut. Coming through Drimcoe bog with the funeral, they commenced to 'clod' the soft turf at each other, and they clodded on until it got dark. The corpse had to be taken back to his home for that night.
"The next day it was taken in a boat up the bay to Inver grave yard 'Saint Naills'.
"After that for a long time until Frosses grave yard was opened, the funerals from the lower end of Dooran all went by sea to Old Inver.
"There is no bog in Drimcoe now, as it has all been cut out. The farmers have to go from eight to ten miles for their turf now."